Tony Og Regan | Personal Professional Development Coaching | Galway GAA | Hurling

Tony Og Regan | Personal Professional Development Coaching | Galway GAA | Hurling

Tony Og Regan a former Galway hurler of some renown and now a Personal and Development coach joined us for a fascinating chat about his career and journey to date.
We hear about his inter county career with the Galway hurlers and the challenges of combining this with a busy working career and professional exams.
After his inter county career was abruptly ended we a very honest account of how Tony struggled to adapt and get over this pain.
Tony tells us his journey then about continuing his studies which led to a career change and setting up his own business.
You can contact Tony on social media platforms @TonyOgRegan or email 





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Hello and welcome back to play I predict calm. I'm delighted to be joined by today by Tonio Gregan, former goalie hurdler of summer noun and a personal and professional development coach. Firstly, Tony, thanks very much for joining us.



Thanks Jonathan for having me on.



Perfect know that there's actually so much I want to delve into you today because I'm genuinely fascinated by your the way you've evolved your career and some of your studies and and obviously the way things are in the current environment as well i think a lot which you you practice and the coaching that you do has become more important but I just wanted to from my own point of view, I wanted to point back to the very start I always give the story of my involvement of sport is my mother dragged me out to the backyard when I was a kid and until be told it's quite ironic because now I'm the most sports fanatic obsessed person you want to be but I'm told back then I didn't really have much of a graph or a lover and there was times it was a dragon out and kicking kicking around messing around with your your local sport. Where did that come from? Was it always go we hurlan our plane messing around the back garden or whatever our word who the kind of the impacts, influences on your press was a early sport and love?



Yeah, it's amazing what maybe comes into your mind when you think back to your earliest childhood memories. And I can remember one incident for Pete Finnerty connector house and I think he was working in financial services at the time so maybe he was trying to sell that a pensioner. daghan 1000 and I remember getting a couple of photos on the front garden and I'm only thinking maybe I was five or six at the time and that just really kind of lodged in me that was probably around 87 eight years ago or you know an iron final every year and they don't call it on tune roll back to back that time and it was like God was in front of me in the front garden and dad would have spoke about him and built them up and you know you select from the TV then as well that may be so highlights out so tell him Stan in your phone Karen maybe lunchtime on a sunny summer's afternoon and having a few books out of home garden with with him and my sisters and that you know that Polly's parents something in me and dad would have been a director of sports and annual ag for about 40 years nearly so. I encouraged her home was actually just filled with the latest things from biometric card cones to tennis rackets to footballs to tennis Smith's hers Gaelic football slitters I will just read every bit of a quick go on and when we got a good summer there, which was very consistent during the 90s we could could set up apps and courses in any sort of games that were happening in our phones lawn. You know, Wimbledon we happen with the tennis nets open the whole garden America goes to the Soccer World coupon we'd have the goal set out and you could event in 10 or 12 lads are playing the front. hurling and football would mass we played in the garden as well during the time. Yeah, I just remember my childhood Jonathan maybe nine o'clock in the morning until he pulled in a 10 o'clock at night. And it was just game after game after game and the sports didn't really matter we just loved playing and diner says and compete and I think that transfer of skills and that crossover of all those sports has definitely helped when you come to evaluate and look back on things and we just said so many fun times of Sport and Sport from Karen Minos wasn't even a structured element tours it was just the fun of playing five asides and four sides and three essays and one on one and that was hard and tennis badminton Gaelic football torch road bureau whatever you know to just create something all those things and having your childhood out there in front characters all your best friends



now it definitely sounds like you grew up in I suppose sports and royalty I'm not sure if that's the way I would describe it I'm thinking back to some Poland branches and off the off the trees and when gold was down here you were with a Olympic Olympic professional equipment. Definitely a sport and royalty. But I can see I can see how that straightaway like even now I can see by your body language look and smile back at such positive happy memories that it did spark us was a love of love affair with sport Would you be interested in a lot of different sports in obviously on the back of that kind of as you grew grew older?






She's like I remember even just programs at home dad was an avid traveler to football and earned a Master's not earning finals. And I can remember just having boxes of programs at home and I'm reading them and the need to resize you know every single team and team nine open players and there's just kind of embedded in my memory and that was football and Harlan not remember the down team that only golf team the dominant teams women footballer in the early 90s typically Kenny cards in the early 90s as well and just been fascinated by all those players and I would like watch the tennis outfielder watch the Soccer World Cups and we would have played as more soccer on the front garden as before. Poland heard and I think there were more evening time sports. For me when I started training with a team a bit seven or eight 910 years of age that you'd be going to Football League and show during the day will be tennis and soccer and basketball and all these other things that you might see a bit Chicago Bulls in the telly or Syria 1990 or whatever the problems will be with the Italian 90 or Italian first division soccer and moody evens and Martin Van bass and Riker and all these guys. And yeah, really just fascinated with their skill level and their lettuce ism and you know, how they could master skills and control and all that and I think just the garden breaking prospers. And besides trying to implement some of these things, which Yeah, I think I would have watched an awful lot of things from from the the basketball to the soccer to the Gaelic football hurling, mom would have been a keen badminton player, one a couple on Ireland. So we will try that as kids and, you know, we practice the entire stance and for a refresher, too. And that quickly finished. So we got to go to experiences kids and different avenues and how to do that.



Yeah, well, that jump in too much. It's just come into my head there, I can see you describing the love affair of so many different supports that supports sports or even, and you've described, you know, different aspects and different skills of each one. Do you feel like it's important that kids when they're younger, do get to, I suppose, experiment and enjoy different sports because we are kind of more and more coming into I think particularly when you look at the power of across the water in the Premier League where it's such an industry and even if you're a for from a parent's point of view, if you can get your your kid in an academy, you're pretty much set up for life for the financial rewards are so good. So you see situations where kids from a younger age are just honing their skills on one particular sport. And that's it. In my mind, it's all as much fun as you can print onto the curb and maybe then towards late teens, you kind of structure towards the sport of your choice, but just from from some of your professional background as well. What what are your thoughts on that? Or I suppose it is a big discussion at the moment.



Yeah, and I like if you looked us fairly hard as you know, strength conditioning point of view and research papers around multi sports, I think there's a massive trends or, you know, the different movement patterns that you'd have for basketball or sports like rugby or soccer. You know, I think there's great similarities and commonalities, but they would ask different questions of you as well, which is great for kids to learn different ways to balance or protect themselves or tackler evade attacking. And I think they're massively good as well as just identifying space and claws and space and having good peripheral vision left to right here, and also be able to see narrow and broad depth, I think, you know, different sports you play, you can transfer over them massively, then when you, you know, maybe decided, for me it was probably around 1617 that I need to go down and particularly push, having all those skills developed from different sports and, you know, even PE classes, etc. I think doesn't matter trends over bought from the mental point of view and a physical point of view. And, you know, I don't think there should be any pressure on kids to be making decisions that are 12 or 13, what route they want to put on. I think if you could really delay that for naught and 1617 and make a decision then I think it'd be more informed. And I also think you'd have a more rounded athlete a more rounded person than our own different sports, both individual and team and different team environments, different personalities, different cultures, different cultures are coaching. I think there's huge benefits for a child's personal development and also the sport development to have that mix and not be just you know, talk to geo background or talk a little bit background I think you know, if you listen to any interviews at Irish rugby players like the rights of Rob Carney or ketos you know, the soccer and will be in Gaelic football skills have transferred with him and the likes of Brian O'Driscoll has been massive. And I think in Australia, they really identify your task where no players are switching from rugby league and rugby union in AFL. And, you know, making professional careers and you know, Sonny Bill Williams were a great example of that. I'm sure the name four or five other Australian Sports people that have made that trend transfer and I think it's been really pushed for in the Institute of sports over there that would allow kids to sample as many of those sports be as water based are field based or whatever it is to give them a grace kind of a lesser development and personal development and holistic look at us. Yeah, definitely. I



think the Australians are kind of seem to be a step ahead when it comes to I suppose definitely the transfer because even it just popped into my head. While you were chatting there. Just the story of David Shannon there was a guy that would have played underage football and for carry found a nation a love affair with pontent in American football, went over to train to a specialized trading unit in Australia and since got a big college move to the summer we obviously wish them best as well but I do find that they are going to so far ahead they're kind of constantly looking outside the box for Whether that's be like Brennan, Irish Gaelic footballers over to play their Aussie Rules, you know that the camps are up, I know, it winds up a lot of the some ga ga people as well, but they are they are if you're looking at from from them looking at their point of view, they are really doing all the right things aren't they're identifying other sports that have can be a benefit to themselves. And they're very open to change as well, which I think sometimes in Ireland where we're a bit kind of reluctant, we're more set in defined structures, and that's the way it is. And that's the way it'll always be, but you gotta you got to open your mind hole is, don't you? Yeah, I



think I'd love to see Jonathan a place where you could have, you know, epi centers or our facilities for all the sports are under one umbrella, and a kid could go into a place and Saturday, and he could sample rudely, from nine to 10, soccer from 10, to 11, bounce into a tennis session, go to a pool at one o'clock and have all those kind of multi sports all under one umbrella. And, you know, kids will identify hotter, best sport is when they get to, you know, 14 1516, etc. Geez, I feel really confident and competent to this, and they start to gravitate towards that more. And I think it's just giving kids the opportunity that, you know, maybe there's talents in the country that we're not even identifying, because they have an access to water, they have an access to pools, or having access to tracks and they're just not maybe not identified for that jumping ability, or left with the ability that could be in them. And maybe they're put into a gap in cornerback and they're not happy doing a shot. You know, and it's you know, I'd love to see the place where we have those epicenters, or, you know, sports complex where kids can go in and teenagers to 17 1819 years of age from nine or 10 up and sample every single sport and find out where their sweet spot is and what they really enjoy. And you know, the cream will rise to the top and people identify what they're really good at maturity and joy. And, you know, I think you know, it can start really select the limit 16 years in 20 years of age for other things.



I know straightaway, public overhead again, I know parents that would have a number of kids involved in different sport and kind of competitions and different sports and structures would would very much love that one spot to to let them in and let them express their love for different sports rather than having to you see some parents that weekend in logistic wise, it's like turn around the place, I need to get this page for a football game this back to Ireland, like if you did it, it'd be it'd be all around. And then because there's always a danger will not because it is a challenge, if you can't be in two places at one time that you lose people to support them as well. That that's a fantastic idea. And we would love to be if you had like regional centers quite spread around the country, what it would do to the whole country's mental health a lot better have a lot of improvement as well wouldn't as well as improving kids sporting backgrounds.



Imagine the boys even just riding into you know, some or their own goal airport where you could have a couple 1000 teenagers already in a massive area like that with you know, seating area and restaurants and the whole thing and, you know, could you imagine that Saturday and Sunday and just hear from an activity and the you know, the type of excitement for a nine or 10 or 13 or 14 year old to be able to grin and traders multisports this mediseen Italia and never get a chance to play and, and you know the amount of people that are able to mix and make new friends and connections vision. And I think it would be a really good kind of outdoor and indoor facility for people to you know, experience and you know, maybe move away from the dangers of addictions to alcohol or drug use or isolation or, you know, whatever opportunities some people just don't get the chance to do and you know if that meant by post services or whatever it gets these facilities that will get everyone in the counties an opportunity to visit once or twice a week or during the week. And schools to use during the week. I think it'll be something massive and something we could really look at from a government funding point of view to get more people actively involved in sport and I think we've seen from COVID-19 does, you know physical activity levels are open and people are probably actually seeing the benefits more and more after having that behavior change for 12 or 16 weeks for those less drive and less public service. And we have to walk and we have to discover new things in our neighborhood the girl and woman walk run and walk and Satan put into chaos so and you know while people are ripe for ideas around that I think it'd be great to give them avenues and easier options into sport in a you know not a competition based way but just a fun way to give them a flavor of



  1. No, absolutely no they'd be it would be a wonderful idea. It's something that I would love to see happen because as I said that there is huge benefits to that. You've touched on so many good points there. I suppose if we look back at your career then so you grew up sport match you tried a number of different sports and then you kind of tailed towards the Harlan the golf grip Have you had that probably you're kind of late teens into into kind of looking at going minor teams and stuff like that where that kind of one, one stop shop of looking to go we got a grip of your way soon. Yeah, I



went to St. Mary's College in Galway and would have played her football there to very high level and you know met all the teams and you know played senior hurling senior football in third year and you know, it's progressing well abort, started making the goal in the 14 and 16 teams for the year I was my age group and then a forest and finally, number 16 final and from there just gravitation to minors at 16. And when we first saw our final 16 and corfac in 2002 1000 and, and football for me was probably a decision then around Leaving Cert to always stick with it or go with the heart and when I when I want to not iron colpack at 16 it was probably an easy decision to go with seniors and dollar and the following year as well and it just like felt a very natural fit that could progress and that was a pathway for me. And I was getting more enjoyment out of the hurdle as well rather than football so I was also into the academic side as well Jonathan so I knew I probably couldn't do the two and do go leave or search and get the points I wanted in college so hardly an easy decision you know, concentrating hard on four or five times a week put as much time as according to books outside of that talk to get a good Leaving Cert and continue progressing and the interview with golden winners.



Yeah, no, absolutely i would i would don't want to kind of streamline me too much but from from looking at you then it seems like the two big things kind of were the two driving points or two major driving plans you'd like us to play regularly for going Garcinia herders which you did and then your suppose you spoke about your streetwise in terms of your Academy you know education as well you got involved in your work on your accountant they were probably two major festivals driving points or two major goals in for the next I suppose chunk of your life we'll call it



yeah like I think with the accountancy I obviously had to do four years manual ag then commerce re and I did a post grad and economics and really enjoyed that time in college you know, on a scholarship well trees that are owned facilities. And you know playing if escaping competition really helped me to progress into the goal of a senior panel very quickly in the going on the 20 ones and you know, playing with some brilliant guys lately Dave attorney was after playing all over Galway, Rory and Gary Hanafi had played Milan and finds Rafi they're all in college with a good bunch of clear lights and the likes of Dairy Queen Tony Griffin is one All Stars paid monitoring findings as well so you know those really good bedrock regardless, they're the one who's from Athenry, Shane was there as well and they've been competing in our final so you know, competition and training to make the Fitzgibbon squad if it's given team you know, as a first year was really massively high and can remember American Ritchie marine we first was given Championship match with in UAE against ul and Richard Paden alone find that September in America, maybe February or March that year, and if it's given, so trying to give you a good barometer straightaway of the level that you're you're hoping to hit and graduate into the guy on the 20 ones that summer, and then good winter with the fits given again, my second year, and Connor Hayes called me into the senior squad and kind of took off from there, then you're in the senior squad and, you know, graduated from menu Ag and decided to quit a chartered accountant role, which I didn't claim would would be as hard as you know, another four years of study influenced me and finally got out there eight years later with a professional qualification of the Church of accountants. And, yeah, some really tough times, you know, we're trying to combine the professional exams, they were just such a step up Jonathan on college exams. And when we first two years, when quite well, and then the third year, I failed one or two of them, just with the level of training we're doing, and, you know, trying to work full time with them. And also study, it was just such a hard combination. And, you know, it's definitely a hard point to try and keep your forum high on the field and also perform in the office environment, which, you know, demand a lot of you to light you know, between exams and ordered, and then you're trying to study for a professional exam. So, I definitely hit a couple of bumps along the road there where the pressure got to me and I was overwhelmed with the train and load on the pitch and, you know, the, the practice and study within a work context and you know, was difficult during that period.



Yeah, like,



I'm even my mind is even spinning, I'd consider myself busy to be at the best of times, but that workload, you're literally at the top levels, you're, you know, it's three major things there and then the small matter of your own personal life to to juggle into that as well. It must have been it must have just been an absolutely insane workload.



Yeah, like your mental health definitely suffers through this and, you know, you're trying to go out and play a match on a week after maybe Working for 40 or 40 hours plus, and then maybe studying for 20 hours on top of it, and, you know, between travel and train, and you're probably Hitman and up around 2025 hours as well. So by the time Sunday came around Polly was my freshest and mentally focused as you could have dinner as well as you could have been, and my former colleague at different times with a dip there, and, you know, probably a large factor that was just not getting that balance, as well as your code. And obviously, you know, trying to get a qualification was important. So, you know, probably at times I put more emphasis on we study and maybe mentally and physically you weren't as fresh than playing football in the sense of matches, but you know, that's, that's the price, you have to pay at different times where you have to prioritize to what's important for you at that point in your life. And, you know, when you got that qualification, then it lifted a huge weight off your shoulders, you're going to work environment and just concentrate at work. And when evening Zen became very free to really focus into my train and and, you know, I felt life for myself, and I felt it was at play myself to the train and aspects a lot more for for go in. And my performance levels began to rise.



Yeah, no, absolutely. I was just about to ask you on that, really, you must have noticed a huge improvement, I suppose in your mental health more than anything, but it definitely would, I'm sure as well, your performances would have been a lot better, you were able to focus so much more, that have not a huge burden on your back. Because the thing about as well as like people are, like, include myself in this unit. So when zoned into a game of football and whatever, and you're like, oh, how did you catch that? Why'd you run it back there, but you just don't realize like, that's an absolutely insane workload on the back of that as well. People don't appreciate they don't see beyond the player wearing the color jersey of their choice, they don't see all the other stuff that goes on behind the scenes to get to that level, does that frustrate you at times Actually,



I listened at it, it would have had a huge impact. Jonathan, I think when you're a younger player, and you know the stupidity of your first couple of seasons, you will be reading every article, or looking on forums, even just to think about whether or not and



that's never gonna do



it, I think I learned that lesson after a year or two, you're never going to please everyone, and you're never going to be a fan, everyone is going to be a fan of yours or whatever. So, you know, if you're trying to convince everyone in the world, that you're gonna go to sports, you take a long time to try and influence opinion around that. And it's just wasted energy. So I think one of the decisions I made around maybe second or third parties is to stop reading newspaper articles and listen to come mature. And this just wasn't adding to my focus for the game and my confidence with the game. And that was a big help. And, and I think players under massive pressure, then it's very hard to detach from everything. Because if you're working in, you know, a certain service job, if you're in sales, or you're in banker, you're meeting the public, you could have 50 or 100 conversations in a day or on the match. And that can be mentally draining. And, you know, with social media, and oh, there's so many apps and so many ways of people voicing their opinion, it's really hard to just detach from the whole lot all the time. So it's trying to manage what filter is true. And, you know, it all has an impact on your health and well being and your confidence and your focus. So it's trying to manage that and not get attached to people's opinion and been overly concerned about people's opinion, which has hired in any facet of life, you want to be as far as respected and liked by peers and supporters and you are trying to do your best and it is amateur. And sometimes when when your own forum isn't going well. No one knows it as much as you like, you know, criticism on top of that really just, you know, can really set you back and knock you back. And it takes a lot of mental strength to get over that and keep putting your hand up and putting yourself in that tone of performance. Again, hard there is potentially criticism down the line. Whether you're a good bad or indifferent in your eyes or other people's eyes.



Yeah, no, because I think it's I think we're even to strip it back one step further. Like I wouldn't go away from the sport I think in society I think we are the generation where I don't think we've fully without going too deep into I don't think we've fully developed her how to appreciate that I suppose the ground rules really were taught in terms of social media and terms of online criticism, abuse, trolling, whatever you want to call it, I always feel it's on him but I always think in my head that sometimes you need a generation of whatever it is to get used to particular styles whether that be social media, whatever it be, I don't think we've I think we've we've seen so many high profile incidents where people don't know they say things stuff online that you wouldn't dream to say on the street but you know that you wouldn't say it on the streets. Why don't you know you can say it online. I think there's a I think there's a bigger thing there as well. So like, it's it's a difficult age, isn't it for of course for sports people like even normal criticism for people are giving their honest opinion on the game






impact. You've you say, Jonathan had a terrible game or he did this wrong, that's wrong, that's going to disappoint me. And it was, but when you go to the nether levels, and as well, where it's trolling, it's the abuse, we've seen so many high profile examples. And as well, it's a difficult time for sports people, isn't it? That must be like, would you have any advice for people, younger sports people that in particular that have gone through that their how to deal with the online social media side side of things, it's probably something you talk about a lot is and



listen, it's it's, as you said, there, it's a massive education piece for society. And we haven't really got to grips with it around what I suppose proper and, respectively, behavior online. And, as you said, Any comment online, you know, is, is there for for all the world to see, and I don't think you'll ever be able to remove those. And that's why our behavior on and off the field boats as people, and as athletes are so so important, because that will carry you throughout your career, how you act and how you behave and what you say. And, you know, it's important people carry themselves, whether you're an athlete or not, people carry themselves in a respectful and, and honest and kind way towards other other human beings. You know, life is challenging and struggling at times. For all people, you know, even the last 10 or 12 weeks, people have all had a sense of last year's friendships or money or career, our loved ones. And, you know, it's we don't know what's going on and people's personalities. And you have to be conscious of that before we go pour cement in this, you know, a player might and had a good game on Sunday. But no, maybe he was in hospital with his mother, as a sister all weekend, you know, he wasn't in a frame of mind to go and play. And we just don't know the background story people. So it's to be conscious all that and, you know, how would we like to treat your own mother or father or brother or sister? How would we speak to them online? I don't think it'd be much the same. You know, people are doing to strangers. And you know, what is a stranger? I think we're all human beings on this earth, we're all equal, and no one should be looked down or looked up, looked down on and it's, it's to have some sort of respect in your own life and how you treat people and making sure that's coming across in whatever domain you're communicating in. And there's a huge person responsibility, and that Jonathan, and I think, you know, if your friends in your life, I think they should be calling us on as well or our family members, and not allowing you to be disrespectful to any person in any domain. And, you know, that's a duty of care we should have in ourselves internally and also around our friends and family. Who should be Roland Martin this as well?



No, absolutely. And I think sadly, it's probably something that we're going to talk about for many years to come once we get to that situation where we have, supposedly, as you said, respect online or where we have a culture that people are called out or that you just don't do it. Because you see, even, like, even it's damned Acosta, you see some of the high profile Premier League players, where they're getting rid of some horrible racist comments, and replies, and social media and stuff like that. And then you find out, it's a 12 year old kid, and you're thinking Jesus, not that it wouldn't have made much difference, it was an adult doing it. But when you see the youth coming in doing it as well, I think you hear all this stuff about social media needing to implement a system where there has to be an identity on an account that you have to sign up with your passport or something like that. So you can't have these anonymous troll accounts. It's a, it's a bigger subject, no doubt that we'll talk a lot more over the year, sadly, until we get to a situation where, where, where, where it's acceptable, but sadly, but just just to go on, then back to your I suppose. Your goal today is from speaking to a couple of people that would have played with each other they're all saying the same thing that you were you know, you're so focused you gave you give your all to and you can see that with your performances on the pitch then as well. When that sadly is Gabi Harlan takes so much of your life when that's removed out of your out of your life, everything you would have talked about your huge amount of time that you spend on the Patreon trade and behind the scenes when that's taken away from you how much how much of a struggle What was that for you personally?



Yeah, I suppose. When I when I think about Jonathan I, from 16 years of age, you're just locked into this dream and you know, playing with the county was the be all and end all for me. And it wasn't probably a healthy relationship as it is gonna come to an end at some stage. But when I was English, I just got so absorbed. I think, you know, nearly every week, an hour of every day, you'd have a taller own goal we heard in our preparation or how can we get better, how can I get better? How can we help the team and you know, you're having so many conversations with teammates around the management around us and, you know, every every aspect of your day has been around with these batteries and how your sleep and how you're hydrated and how you're recovering. What's your training plan is for the Jay, what's your training plan this week? You know, getting yourself ready for the game on Sunday for mental aspect, maybe one or two coaches and mentors outside the train and doing your analysis through video. You know, you get very consumed and absorbed and ascend. You know, that was me maybe for 14 or 15 years of my life and then to just, you know, before the 29 or 30, that you're not in the pile and, you know, not really seen a way back, you can just switch off from that. And it did take me to go to four years before that, that pain of incose was really had left me I can remember even standing, you know, two years old was in 2015. And Andy Smith and David Collins or Captain are playing to Kenyan dollar fine. And I was working as a sports psychologist with the miners on the same day. And at halftime Gordy and Kenny buddy four pints and, you know, in me, I was like wanting to leave the stadium Jonathan bananas, but I just couldn't bear to see the lads women and maybe not been a part of that after given, you know, go to 1415 years tours. And, you know, I was only 31 years of age, I felt I could give something to the setup that would have helped and been made the defense's competitive bid. And so that was a difficulty for me, you know, even at halftime last game, the last one would I be able to stay there and the reason for that was I felt it would have brought down mentally and emotionally have to do with us and you know, I was thinking of leaving the stadium at halftime because I didn't know what way I would have reacted to that. And I didn't want to break down in front of people. And to this lecture started chatting to me from the Weiner team and the next thing my avenue to get out was gone and the second half started and Kenny just took over and I think we got maybe two scores from playing the whole second half and you can even bring them maybe three or four pints and and you know just it was Allison was devastation at the end again for so many my friends that have been there from 2005 as well you know that they didn't win they all are and just felt like a real missed opportunity again for overheard and you know, you're kind of wondering you know how long war since Asia would would it be for the next group to win and thankfully when we got there and 17 I was working with the miners again and wounded Ireland that day with miners and norms had to enjoy the whole SR final just saw the laser and down the pitch afterwards and meet my own club near john Henry and inherited your canning and Connor Cooney and Niall Burke and all those lads it was just it was just lovely moment and it just for me it was therapeutic to see that it that much that it was it, embrace it, enjoy it, like the rest of the country for the next two to three days. And but it did take me three or four years to really get over that upset of not wanting to go your own terms and, you know, sign off and say goodbye to people in the right manner. And that was that was a real struggle for me for a couple years after that.



Yeah, because like I don't want to delve into too much. But what if the story that I read is true that it ended on a phone call after given so much of your life and dedication and uni described I'm sure it's only a fraction of your kind of not even workload, but how your life was geared towards wearing the maroon jersey to not have a chance to properly say goodbye like getting removed would have been bad but all the other I suppose the coldness of it all not that there's ever a good way to remove someone from a situation but I can only imagine like I'm thinking about myself like and even nowhere near comparisons, smaller teams if you're removed there's almost a bitterness there you don't want the team home in a weird way it's whether it's a poor reflection of my personality, you know, your mood and the team are planning to be fine you don't want to know what I don't even want them to win now and the team that you've put so much you know effort to and so much your life and that that was really a must have been such a bomb shelter because such a range of emotions to try and try and manage for an amateur athlete being in a professional environment to just be gone like that as well. I'm not quite sure I personally would have would have imagined that situation I won't I



listen in the strange thing, Jonathan that you know, parents you didn't want the team to win in case you're going to miss out and it's it's such a weird motion because you know, everything in your being for the last 14 or 15 years wants to come to you to be successful and then all of a sudden, you're having these painful thoughts and painful emotions in your body and they're just like so so painful and so emotion to bear and you know, such dark times when I think back in the day you know, just emotional crying watching matches and and you know crying and missing out on, you know, events with teammates such a charity dressing for 10 or 12 years and took so much old me at the time. It was really really difficult and you know, I think It has helped me know, my practice working with athletes. This was to help manage that better within management teams or on their communication. And then also, the athletes that, you know, there has to be life outside of sport, there has to be a plan after a sport. And, you know, it's only one role that you're going to be doing during the week. And I always look at that with athletes and say, you're your brother, here, you're a son, you're a friend, you're an athlete, you know, your team is, you know, your teacher, maybe if so many roles within the week that you can get fulfillment out to and, you know, you might be looked at, as you know, that athletes identity in your own eyes. And some people may only see that what is important that you see your value in other parts of the community and other parts of society as well. And people do see and do different roles for different reasons. And you'll see your value as a human being in different ways. So it's trying to differentiate that athletic identity for people that, you know, there's probably nine or 10 parts of your personality here that people appreciate. And it's to identify those values and those behaviors that people are admiring you. And also the other skills that you transfer from a sports environment into other domains to be successful as well and can be successful. And that sense of achievement and fulfillment. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.



Yeah, no, absolutely incited to put in there. But it's just one of the things that struck into my mind, again, when kind of researching for this is you. I'm a firm believer that you try and take the positives out of every situation, no matter how dark and grave that is. And we've had a horrible situation, so many people dying in terms of the buyers, and then the lockdown that occurred on the back roll. But I think it has allowed a lot of people particularly I think sports people as well, where their life was like you were, it was so hold on to getting ready to be on the on the on the pitch at the end of the week, and everything that went around it, all of a sudden, that's taken away, teams aren't armed or shouldn't be trained. And I was but I had to look at other aspects of their life and discover new parts the life that they were good at and discover more hobbies. Like, obviously, it was challenging within the remit of the lockdown, and then the very circumstances, but I think, I think I think all that can be used to it to a positive impact where players and not just players, people have to kind of have to adjust themselves and have to see what was important in their life. And, and to see that there's other things out there, like I'm a huge, huge believer, and lover of sport, consumes my life a lot and everything about it, but even locked in for me was like, You know what, I don't want to watch that replay of that game over and over and over again, there is there was other stuff here, I think that that was a good time for a lesson for us all really to, to use it and to develop our personal, inner inner self a lot more, you'll obviously explain it a lot better than I'm rambling on here. Well, that's one thing that I copped on the last last couple of months, really,



sometimes we can use these things, Jonathan as a distraction from the real issues in our life and the real important things in our life. And whether that's putting off doing a course or it's important enough, you know, progress in your career, if it's putting off having a conversation with a partner, friend or family member that maybe haven't had the time to do or you've you know, put the blame at sports store that I haven't planned to commit to these things. I think it was great to give people perspective and and particularly its force people, I don't think they maybe put enough time into their their career off the field. And also their relationships off the fields actually just spend time with friends and not have the excuse that on train in the morning. You can't go to that. Now you are no I can't meet to Saturday, because I'm recovering. You know, now all of a sudden, they were available and how do you allow them to reunite those friendships again, and, you know, see the value in having friendships outside of sport and having the time to plan your own day and having a bit of control over your schedule, again, where you could train when it suits you, because of your free time when asuza and then we put more time and emphasis into you know, doing that course or maybe progressing in your career is that you had probably neglected for maybe a year or two or three, three years. And you know, I think it's given everyone a different perspective is more time to invest in your health are more time to invest in your career developments are more time your relationships. I think it's it's been a healthy thing from a lot of people you've talked to and obviously there's a lot of anxiety as well and concern over different aspects where people and we will forget that, you know, be it financial concerns or had concerns and and that's been a parliamentarian issue for people as well. So and you know, I think the whole thing has been a good thing to get Irish people to get a new perspective on what's important. And, you know, maybe get off the rat race that we've been on maybe for a couple months or a couple years in some cases.



Yeah, no, no, absolutely. And you touched on it there but putting off that course or you know for people themselves, but afterwards like you're you dropped from college This is where I suppose you went and studied in in water for the Masters without a big kind of not turning point but a big kind of step on the way your your life of winter the next step of your life when to cut away from. I'm a goalie, hurdler and now here we go, here's the next step was that that was an important moment for you was that something that you'd always kind of decided you wanted to do? Or where did that kind of decision come from? Yeah, I



suppose around 2012 2013 I had probably 10 years done at the accountancy at that stage and I really enjoyed the team I worked with and enjoy the company was worth more than, you know, work was good from that aspect. It was just, I couldn't honestly see myself Jonathan do another five years in the career and you know, that for me, he was telling me something and, and I like I used to bounce out of bed on a Saturday and Sunday morning to train if we were on at 6am or 7am was no way to get up and I just found myself struggling to get out of bed in the morning and have to really motivate myself to go to work, I just wasn't feeling that same motivation and excitement about result as it was maybe I was starting out. And I just started to explore and to the GPA there was a player development program at the time and still there with a career coach what would be maybe suits my personality what would be suited my passions and interests and and I remember just having a really great conversation with Fran earlier on that for two hours and it just spiked my interest and I just looked at maybe doing a certificate then is for psychology to see Was it something for me and I'd always had a massive interest in readings for psychology books, just to get another one to 2% when it was playing and you know, you kind of get an idea then that there's actually people in professions around this and working in golf and different aspects and and yeah, so I just started that journey where he went he went up to Dublin every Wednesday night for a two hour course for about 20 weeks and really spiked my interest, I was probably used to doing a lot of business subjects and it wouldn't be the most exciting the likes of auditing and tax and and imagine how you're probably just doing enough to pass and you know, you're never having a conversation again. Whereas I was in the class with 15 or 20 people and we're talking about athletes and teams and what makes great teams and great athletes mindset and a whole new area for me and you know reading research papers on how people use pre performance routines to help with nerves or how to use mindfulness to deal with staying in the present moment and how to use visualization to develop leaf and skill patterns and God I was just laughing rock Jonathan it was felt so natural to be reading this and studying. And you know I remember after maybe the tour cast back on I need to look into the masters and this and want to develop him further and you know in my mind metal faster so he played for the Masters but all the people around us and got accepted and I was still working full time doing all this and the accountants and I continued on doing it for another 18 months and did my masters and you know you talk about workflows. I remember 2015 and down in Waterford every Monday for lectures, I started working as a sports psychologist with water senior heart team The goal was senior football team and regarding minor hurlan team and I was doing a thesis that year and it was just an amazing busy year which is always just lovin everyday because the the novelty of the new experiences. Check the likes of Aston leafs and Kevin Moore and one two ones. You know golf footballers Paul conradie Garrett Bradshaw, Shane Walsh and, you know, working with Kevin Walsh, Derek McGraw was just so excited Jeff Lynskey and you know it was it was a great time you know, you're learning the theory in college and you're beginning to apply it in your one to ones in your team workshops. And just remember the whole year have been so exciting. You know, we got to the latter stages in both football and Hernan touches at Waterford in Galway and the gold miners got to honor it and finally as well so it was just a brilliant summer and I just really really enjoyed us and yeah, really kind of mad season at the end of that year then that I was going to go full time into us and leave the accountancy and see how a year went and here I am Six years later.



It's like even now the way I can see you describing that period where I suppose maybe too cliche to call it a love of a love affair but you you can transition yourself across but it's almost like when I'm looking back at you now and describing the story it's like your two big pillars and your life goals and your accountancy both white but I can still see the positive happiness in you describing this whole kind of this lease of life in a weird way that you got as well that that was a I suppose the perfect transitional period ready for you? I guess.



Yeah, cuz I definitely hadn't made peace with the intercounty As I described earlier and to back in that kind of family with Waterford and with the Galway, footballers, it kind of felt like you were valued again and respected again and you're making a contribution and you're helping people maybe achieve that dream of winning the McCarthy or, or Sam Maguire in the case of football and, you know, it was exciting the non bosses again going to Harless are going to call Parker going to McHale Park. And, you know, we had some great experiences, you know, kind of championship finals and Nestle finals and monster, find the monster championship matches and national leagues. And, you know, you know, I kind of felt like, you know, what wasn't the same as target. And what I was definitely getting an awful lot of boxes ticks around that experience have been an inter county at least. And it definitely did help with us healing process that took me four years to still be involved, and still having a bit of an impact. And the contribution is all with those players and teams.



Yeah, so you describe your own kind of coming back. And just pretty quickly and curious that this was that the Coltrane versus play? And how did you find that balance? Or is that something that you're, you hear people that don't make that transition across here? Some people, you always hear the cliche, good players don't make good managers, good coaches, or whatever. But how did you how did you find how do you describe the difference between the two experiences?



hugely like, I think when I was just playing, you're kind of very insular on your own preparation, that we can have one minus. Yeah. And then like, when you go into a management team is just global, like, you're you're looking out for 40 individuals, you're having conversations with the medical team, the coaches, the manager, the analysis team, and you're trying to get a feel for where the whole group is asked for individuals or ash, and trying to hit the right notes around team preparation, individual preparation, and really looking at each individual player and what their need might be that week, and how you can maybe help them an impact. So you know, your whole lanes just has to widen and broaden. And, you know, I think it's very easy for a player maybe, in that sense that, you know, they don't have to overly consumed with what goes on the outside the management team take care of that. And that preparation was, as a sports psychologist in that backroom team, you're having conversations around everything around time, the meetings length, the meetings, scheduled for the week, the sheduled, for the weekend, what won't ones you're having when you're having your team workshops, and, you know, the whole flow there on time to pay and have an input around that. So, you know, there's a huge part of this, and a huge part of that, globally, is that you have to be part of it was a multidisciplinary team. And we're all every contribution to make to that help the overall performance and the overall mindset of the group



would would be the manager of being the person in charge of both, like all sides of both the gameplay and everything else that goes on, that's something that would interest you as well, are you kind of happy with your kind of specialist specialist area.



And as definitely something to consider, and then you look at the workload that's involved. And some days you say, I love that responsibility, and I feel it could do really well. And then other times you're going, God is actually mental, Jonathan, whereas Canton, you know, if you were to put a clicker on a manager and see how many interactions he's having, in the week, between form calls and county boards, and players and facilities and sponsors, and, you know, looking at opposition and view and player performance, you know, it's it's huge, like, it could be as big as he wants it to be, or as small as he wants to be, it could be 50 or 60 hours, it could be 30 or 40 hours. And that's, you know, a guy that maybe has to manage a home life or professional life with us. It's, it's a huge ask, and I have such respect for all the managers I worked with and all the managers are currently doing it because it's such a demanding job and such a such expectations from the outside and such expectations from the players around, you know, the professionalism, the low confirmed demand the know as well. And, you know, obviously, they're putting in massive hours tools, and you have to try and build that environment for them to allow them to get the best out of themselves and the team to get the best on says, so. Yeah, definitely fleet in my mind a time when you're thinking of the workload reverse again. Yeah. So yeah, I continue doing and learn in the role. I mean, and hopefully, you know, when the time is right, maybe it might be a decision for me, but at this moment in time, I'm just really in love and learn about all areas of performance psychology and trying to impact individuals and teams in the best way and or possibly can.



Yeah, no, absolutely very interested in keeping you from going mandra move again, give you 555 years or so we'll come back and you'll be up there on our final day. But I suppose I think we touched on a little bit earlier. There is what a time's the G in particular is kind of, you know, streetwise is token at one point of view, I think we've definitely noticed that evolve the last couple of years in particular. But do you ever get more kind of, I suppose, the negative or that resentments or what do they need that for account, they just go out and play? Do you ever get more of a kind of sometimes a kind of a blocker from people? Obviously, as I said, it's improved a lot. But but we're still I think we're still behind a lot of particularly when you look at the American sports, the level of coaching that they have, in terms of specialized positions and specialized areas that it used to be it used to be one guy, and then we might have to go around site and one might only bring the water bottles, you know, that sort of way. But for management teams, I think was Liam Sheedy made the comment where he almost needed a second boss for all the cultures, it said, Does that give DC money examples of that that kind of resentment, or that kind of the old fashioned miners are reluctant to the change in your career so far?



Yeah, kind of, I suppose, grants me a smaller version, you know, you talk about intercounty costs, and we need to manage them all the time. And, you know, the the product is did you know delivering a great standard of skill and entertainment for supporters knowing, you know, their pain may be easy or internal and finding the pain maybe, you know, 30 or 40 years into adventure game, and if that's fun back and that can, you know, expense, you know, resources like facilities and backroom teams that you know, are going to join that product to make it even better. You know, I think that's where we should be spending the money. And I think it's important that, you know, it's money well spent to, you know, if if, if we know that nutrition is so, so important, from a health point of view, both from a physical and mental point of view, why wouldn't we get the best resources available to help players around that and around their calorie intake or their protein or their fats, whatever it is, that's going to help them be at their best, you know, if video analysis is something as important to this content, in enhance performance, you know, why not spend the money and get good software and get good professional people that are able to break that down and give the best information and insights to people know, if there's coaches out there that have really upskilled and spend 15 or 20 years developing themselves in performance psychology, or football or hurling coaching, you know, and have done the work around us and other qualifications for professional people, you know, they should be rewarded. And, you know, that that's what the players are looking for, is to have the best people around them to allow them to fulfill their dreams as players. And, you know, when I think back to my own career, you know, we just didn't have those resources. And we didn't have the knowledge of the learner, it just wasn't there. And you know, it's disappointing when you look at No, you know, the level of care for players and the motor recovery, that they're allowed have and the best nutrition and everything. It's just really, it's a great time to be a player and great time to be an athlete, because all this is kind of coming to the boil. And you know, there's great information out there. There's great research been done. And, you know, if the money has been there, and it's been generated, why not plowed into making the product and services available to the players that are providing that product even better? You know, just Yeah.



No, no big part. No, absolutely. It was just again, kind of researching for this I came across a quote from Aaron George, the Yankees, right outsider. And it's like, the mental game is what separates the good players from the great players. So one of them I can do to improve that mental age to help me stay my best I'm gonna try and do with the other court that came into my mind as well is another shame from from some huge Liverpool fan as well. But club when he comes in his first preference press conference was, we have to change from doubters into believers. And there's been so many different things and you know, statements that were mocked, I remember even there was a two to draw at West Brom at home, it's a non existing game for a couple years back where they were losing until right at the end, and he already had kind of given out about the crowd and not not stay to the end to fight to the end to help the team, have the team achieve, you know, a late equalizer or something like that. They everyone stayed that game, and they got it. And then they did a B kind of that old German thing. But they all hold hands a wave up to the crowd, it was marked out at the time by a lot of people in the game. But what people missed out was the bigger point that was like saying, This is what we can achieve. We can get everyone together. This is the mental side of the game. And you come back and we've seen so high powerful results in comebacks, the Barcelona game from last year in the Champions League finals, where there are three notes down first, like and then come back, probably one of the greatest results you'll ever see in a sport in a field where annfield was absolutely hoppin that night and Liverpool tore into Barcelona 143 and it was repeated again that same thing, so it is there like there are a couple of examples straightaway where the mental side and for people at the top of their game can can use those. And it's all about the fine marriages as well. Like surely every team should be employing the likes of you and getting people out there to give them the best chance of success and get that copy presented. All this frustrates me when I see people are what do we need that we don't need that and they can't they go and play and put the ball over the bar etc. For me that frustrates me, again, from from your point of view haven't studied so much as well, it must be, I wish you wouldn't be normal if you weren't a little bit resentful about that. Or, please do of course, again before I let you come in so you are the perfect example you have been there you weakness, you've, you've been there, you know, the biggest days gone, you've you've experienced everything today, you have the you know, the tactical side of you that the knowledge of the sport as well from inside out, as well as the other aspect. It's like the perfect fit really isn't it? Like,



I just when I come back recall in 2017. And you see the scenes after in Northern Ireland where your donor tip in 2016, after winning all Ireland and three, you couldn't put a price on how it makes people feel like, you know, these people probably in hospital beds for weeks on end, and the can't get over the bed, and then all of a sudden the team wins and all around at five o'clock. And the pain just leaves their body and their mobile again for a few moments. You know, it's from children, to kids to adults to grandparents, it's just such a monumental shift in energy for a whole county. And in that county in that moment, and all the people abroad and everything, the sense of identity and the sense of place and the sense of connectedness. When you see a David Bartlett and Elaine McCarthy or Brendan Maher or whatever county it is, you know, it's absolutely you couldn't put a value on that. And you know, a complicated here are complicated, they're on a spreadsheet, you know, those memories and those experiences, you know, people will be still talking all the time and 50 or 60 or 70 years time and they will come back and videos. And you know, if you were to put a value on the economy for those couple of days, and what will be spent in malls and restaurants and I would say is, you know, and all the gear that's bought in the counties around on our final buildups and weeks after and for Christmas and everything and, you know, you look at all the coup camps even for 12 or 18 months after all and finds, you know, you're nearly trebled in numbers because the county team and the senior team is successful. And you'd see that in the football and earning goal when the team is going well in the summer camps the two or three years. They're blocked out the door, Jonathan, maturity on the kids, you know, economy, why is your walk through shops, your key Street, that's flags and bonds and optics and atmosphere and an energy within the county. The schools when they go back in September, there's an energy and an atmosphere. The club's Everton is just on a different level. And, you know, I'd say even mental health and everything is a huge improvement for those couple of weeks that people have, you know, a purpose and a meaning and excitement to look forward. And, you know, I think when we start worrying maybe around a complicated here applique there when an organization is already generating this, you know, I think we're missing missing the point really, it's, you know, what's the value add of any of these services? What the value of the team performance even better than last year? You know, what does it do for county? What does it do for society? What does it do for you know, the whole community it's just, you know, it is priceless is absolutely priceless for me to see that and be part of that build up both as a player in or supporter working as a professional in the game at different times. You know, it's a magic three or four weeks and it's a magic three or four months after it as well when it does come off. And sometimes they'll be winning order memories for lifetimes and hopefully we'll see it again. Not too distant future is a Yeah, no,



it just come into my head ever again. You seem to be stimulating my mind to go but I keep getting other thoughts and stuff like that. It's, it's, I'm really enjoying this, I have to say but it was a it was an interview, jack McCaffrey did after one of the Dublin all Ireland wins, where they went down to the Children's Hospital, I think the next day or definitely a couple of days afterwards. And so McCaffrey is coming from a doctor environment that works there sees the patients day in day out as part of his day job. And then he's coming back with Tom McGuire, and he's talking about this smile and the relief that people learn in society. So well, the excitement that you gave, and it's not quite the bill Shankly called work. You know, football is most important and it's not a matter of life or death. It's more important than that. It's not that it's like he was talking about that they have people talk about sport and not being important and he could see it passionately. zizic No, it absolutely is you go in and you see the smiles and those people that are so well that we can give these happiness to them and it's just it is their sport is a platform that is hugely hugely powerful to our mental health as well.



Yeah, and like you know, going into nursing homes or clubs, going into schools, you know, all those areas, those people are just on an absolute different hi after after seeing those four people and those four stars and you know, the contribution they're making to society, I think it is absolutely priceless and there are massive role models and it has It can have such a huge effect on people both from a mental and physical point of view. And it's it's just fantastic to see that we have those initiatives within Ireland that can actually drive a whole community to you know, greater greater greater health and happiness really and enjoying the Trillium you know, if we can you know, cultivate as much of that in our lives both in our personal lives in our own community via to sports or other mediums, I think we've really got to pack it and put together ever forms are available around that. Absolutely, I



could I couldn't agree more. So I suppose just to touch back on yourself, then before we let you go apart from preparing to be the next gold monitor we got that got exclusive here. I'm just getting a Just kidding. Your own your own, I suppose career at the moment, just tell us maybe like a robot? What's your kind of day to day? What do you do? What services do they offer are just a little bit more about about your current setup?



Yeah, it's funny I fully over touched on this for psychology side. So that would be just working with individual teams and athletes. And, you know, I know Jasmine already mentioned today, but you know, I work with huge amount athletes both at Olympic level and professional level in a range of sports, we call for boxing or horse race in our show jump and, and you know, modern, fantastic these kickboxing, it's just been, it's just been great to meet so many different athletes from so many different sports and have helped them in their performance and helping their lives. And then from a corporate side of us, you know, you're obviously asked him to do numerous talks a bit on health and well being on high performance teams on leadership. You know, I would work during corporate teams on senior leadership teams around team development and personal and professional development. And there is like emotional intelligence, well being, you know, performance and, you know, I really enjoy those aspects of work as well and work paradigm with with the Gaelic Players Association, as a career and personal development coach, as well. So, and we can be very, very, very Jonathan and I love that aspect of it from an in the sports teams to work in the car for teams and individuals to, you know, working with the player to get a Players Association on career and personal development and helping players with that transition out of the game. And we're currently playing just, you know, evolve their personality and identify the great qualities to have outside the plane and the great opportunities that have outside the plane as well. So yeah, I'm very, very grateful for the career I have so far. And I look forward to making an impact in all those areas going forward.



Yeah, but I'm curious to know from the principles, the corporate point of view, obviously, there's been a huge dynamic in the chain of it, we've kind of gone away from the little bit of your commute, and you're stuck in traffic while you go. He said in the office, you do your work and go home, that's all changed for a lot of people the last couple of months to working from home environment, which has been challenging as well. You might have kids that are not in school schools that are close, etc, they're around you're trying to, you might not have a full setup, office space or stuff like that, there's been a lot of challenges. And then I suppose the biggest challenges as well as people. And the danger is that you know, work is always there that you can't get away from it, it's the laptop is always beside you, or whatever you feel like you're because if you know times yourself, you're like, Oh, I'm still lucky to be in a job here. And God have to give that extra couple of presents. But it is a big balancing act, that's probably something I would imagine that kept you was was busier people have been approaching you about her is an area that you've probably available to discuss in depth, I'm sure.



Yeah, it's a massive change that the whole work and environment from home and you know, setting up boundaries around the office that you're able to, as far as you mentioned, there detach from your work and day, and that the laptop doesn't work compared to the sitting room and the kitchen and the bathroom experience and all of a sudden, your mind is just on work completely all the time, and there's no detachment from us. And, you know, it's been flexible around that to Jonathan, because we're working environments, you know, there could be two or three kids know, that aren't in school anymore. And it's for management teams and leaders in organizations to recognize that such and such a person may not be able to get to critical reports between six and 10. At nighttime, you know, they might do that work early in the morning or in the afternoon, because they're collecting kids or their money to kids, etc, etc. So, it's been, you know, really working with management teams around that and the more flexible around that work approach and also looking at the health and well being that, you know, our staff and really supported around us and been able to manage that transition and, you know, build in routines with them or own their workloads around their health and energy and how to de stress from their day and how to, you know, make make things more manageable for them. And, you know, those things I really like your own habit formation and, you know, identifying the triggers that aren't helpful and and hindering that or work performance or mental health? And how can we maybe do around that to support people. And that can be paired in workshops, it can be working one to one with them and work in small business teams around that. And you know, we're all just learning this for the first time, really, I suppose I've been self employed for five or six years. So I've been kind of used to managing that home environment, and they've been on the road a bit as well. And just trying to understand what the challenges are for your team and having that relationship with your team, the thread to explore that which and how best to maybe help them around that transition. And when's the best time to contact them and not contact them? And when can we maybe challenge them and support them in the right way?



Perfect for people that are listening whatever where's the best place to contact you or get in touch with because they did they're so important services? At the moment I think now more than ever, it's become more important than I speak from a personal point of view as well appreciate not where's the best people or place for



Johnny on either social media channels, Anthony, get me a Tony O'Regan and my direct email is Tony all dot And they're probably the most useful place at the moment. I'm still working on getting the website up and running after a bit of work during the lockdown. So that's where I'm at. And that's probably the easiest place to contact me on any of those things.



Perfect, perfect. Well, listen, Tony, I won't delay any longer. I know you're busy man as well. Thank you so much. I'm genuinely fascinated by that chatter feel like have you on again to talk a bit a bit more in depth in depth as we climb mutters, thank you so much. wish you continued success and continue the good work.



Thanks, Jonathan. I really enjoyed myself. Oh, and have a lovely weekend. Thank you.

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